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 Saturday, January 30, 2010

Thyroid Update: Desiccated Thyroid and Iodine

By Diana Hsieh @ 5:00 PM

After months of being lethargic, confused, fat, pained, and cold from my hypothyroidism, I'm finally on the mend! Although I'm not yet 100%, the turn-around was remarkable. Within just a few days, my worst symptoms of mental fog and lethargy were alleviated by rejecting the conventional treatment of synthetic T4 (e.g. Synthroid, levothyroxine) in favor of desiccated porcine thyroid plus high-dose iodine.

(Desiccated thyroid is dried pig thyroid; it contains the full range of natural hormones produced by the thyroid, not just T4. High-dose iodine means supplementing with 12.5 to 50 milligrams per day.)

When I was diagnosed as hypothyroid in early November, my TSH was only 3.23. That's barely abnormal, but I was suffering from most of the standard symptoms of hypothyroidism. (TSH above 2.5 suggests hypothyroidism.) My doctor put me on 50 micrograms of Synthroid, a synthetic version of the T4 hormone. Two months later, in early January, my TSH was down to 2.28, but my symptoms were somewhat worse. Also, my Free T3 and Free T4 were the same, still on the low end of the middle range.

Undoubtedly, I could have increased my Synthroid, eventually reducing my TSH to my doctor's target of around 1.0. Would I have felt any better at that point? Based on my experience on the drug for those two months -- when my lab values improved but my symptoms worsened -- I strongly suspect not. Instead, if I'd stayed on Synthroid, I likely would have been mentally and physically disabled for the rest of my life.

I'm not exaggerating. During those two months, I was unable to work, travel, or pursue any substantive projects. My weekly trip to the grocery store exhausted me, and I often couldn't muster the energy to slowly walk around the pastures with Conrad. My IQ felt about 20 points lower; I could only think at a very surface level. I was most definitely not flourishing. My mind and body seemed to be slowly shutting down.

Sadly, that's not an uncommon response to the standard regimen of T4-only medication. TSH might fall to normal levels, but the many debilitating symptoms of hypothyroidism remain. From what I've read in countless forums, too many doctors seem concerned only to treat the problem of high TSH, not the underlying problem of hypothyroidism. In particular, many doctors seem to ignore the fact that the body might not effectively convert the storage hormone T4 into the active hormone T3 -- or that tissues might not effectively use T3. Many patients on synthetic T4 medication complain to their doctor about their persistently raging hypothyroid symptoms, only to be summarily dismissed. After all, if the TSH is normal, all those classic hypothyroid symptoms simply must be due to something other than a poorly functioning thyroid -- like aging or poor diet or even hysteria. Or so they claim. (Such doctors equate hypothyroidism with elevated TSH, just as analytic philosophers equate concepts with definitions.)

The consequences of that mis-treatment are tragic. People suffer the degradation of living as a quasi-corpse for years and decades, unless they discover desiccated thyroid. (Or, in some cases, they suffer unless they find a way to return to desiccated thyroid, after some new doctor switched them from it to synthetic T4, often against their express wishes.) It's heartbreaking to read these stories. I know that, without dedicated and tenacious people like Janie Bowthorpe of Stop the Thyroid Madness, I could have suffered the same fate. Instead, I got off pretty easy with only two months of living as a semi-corpse on Synthroid.

At the time of my diagnosis of hypothyroidism in early November, I was aware that Synthroid might not work for me. However, given that I developed my hypothyroidism at the very height of a government-induced shortage of desiccated thyroid, I was willing to try it. Well, I got my answer by early January: Synthroid didn't do squat for me, except lower my TSH.

Happily, my excellent family practice doctor, Dr. Heble, was willing to switch me to one grain of desiccated thyroid, to see whether that might help. (One grain is the standard starting dose for desiccated thyroid, but it was an increase for me, based on this conversion chart.) By that time, I'd found a local source: Wise Compounding Pharmacy.

Just as I was making that switch from Synthroid to desiccated thyroid, I also began taking high-dose iodine, plus selenium. As I indicated in my first post on my hypothyroidism, I suspected that I might be deficient in iodine for three reasons.
  1. Seafood is the primary natural dietary source of iodine, but I hated it until my mid-20s, and even now, I don't eat more than a serving per week.

  2. Nearby oceans supply the soil of the east and west costs with iodine, but I've lived in the "goiter belt" for the last decade.

  3. Then, perhaps tipping me over the edge, I switched from iodized salt to (low-iodine) sea salt when I began eating paleo in the summer of 2009.
(I'll say more on what I suspect about the origins of my hypothyroidism in another post, including its relationship to my lacto-paleo diet.)

Back in early December, I began cautiously supplementing with 150 micrograms of "Liqui-Kelp," gradually increasing that to 600 micrograms over the next month. (150 micrograms is the government's recommended daily allowance.) I never felt any positive results from doing that. However, during that time, I was reading about much, much higher doses of iodine -- between 12.5 and 50 milligrams -- as sometimes necessary for whole-body health, including improving thyroid function.

I was intrigued by that, but also very wary. Most doctors will say that milligram doses of iodine are dangerous. However, the claims of danger seem to be sketchy, seemingly based on poor-quality epidemiological studies. Plus, most people seem to be able to handle those milligram doses just fine, and many people see remarkable improvement on them. Also, from what I read in some standard medical sources, a person with a physically intact thyroid can handle that much iodine, but a person with a damaged thyroid (e.g. partly removed in surgery) will be unable to tolerate it. Also, some people with Hashimoto's do great on iodine, but others don't tolerate it well. So, with much trepidation, I decided to try milligram doses of iodine.

On Monday, January 11th, I began taking Iosol and Lugol's, working my way up to about 16 milligrams by the end of the week -- over 100 times the government's RDA. I also began supplementing with 100 to 200 micrograms of selenium each day. (Selenium is essential for thyroid health, you probably don't want to take iodine without it, and you definitely don't want to take more than 400 micrograms per day. That upper limit seems well-established.)

(Note: I don't have any special reason for doing both types of iodine, except my own confusion. Lugol's -- or the tablet form Iodoral -- seems to be the preferred form, as it contains both iodine and potassium iodide. From what I've read, different tissues prefer those different forms. Iosol contains only iodine. The milligrams of iodine per drop for J.Crowe's Lugol's Solution is here.)

On Tuesday of that week, I began feeling better: I was able to run some errands, then attend Ari Armstrong's "Liberty in the Books" economics discussion group. That amazed me, as doing both would have been impossible just a week before. Then, on Wednesday, I switched to the desiccated thyroid. Over the next few days, I felt amazingly better. My brain fog lifted, and my lethargy disappeared. I could think again! I could concentrate! I danced around the house, singing silly songs! I wanted to exercise again! I had energy to burn! Life was good again!

Most amazingly, within just a few days on the milligram doses of iodine, a 16-month bout of totally mysterious amenorrhea came to an end. (Sorry, TMI, I know... but it's important.) I was totally floored; I never expected that kind of result, not so fast! By way of background, the problem started after I went off the birth control pill in October of 2008. My doctor did a battery of tests over the summer, but nothing seemed wrong, except that my estrogen levels were very low -- like menopausal. Initially, we thought the problem was just that my reproductive system went dormant with the shock of going off the pill after about fifteen years of nearly continuous use. Once the hypothyroidism cropped up, my doctor wondered whether there might be some connection. Hypothyroidism is known to cause menstrual problems, albeit usually causing too-heavy periods. Now I wonder what my iodine deficiency did to my estrogen levels, if that's what happened. (Oh, and I'm not the only one.)

Never in my life have I experienced such a dramatic turn-around in my health, mind, and mood as I experienced that week on iodine and desiccated thyroid. If I weren't a intransigent atheist, I would describe it as a miracle. That's what it felt like: I got my life back -- I got myself back -- in the span of just a few days.

However, I had an epistemic problem. Although I knew that the improvement began before I switched to desiccated thyroid, I wanted to sort out how much was due to the iodine supplementation versus the desiccated thyroid. So after three days on desiccated thyroid, I switched back to my old 50 microgram dose of Synthroid. I stayed on that for about five days -- enough time to allow the T3 of the desiccated thyroid to fully clear from my system.

During that time on iodine plus Synthroid, I definitely felt a decline in my energy and mental function, although I was still significantly better than when on Synthroid alone. I was eager to get back to the desiccated thyroid, and I perked up again when I switched back to it. Interestingly, I'm going without iodine today and tomorrow, to prepare for an iodine loading test on Monday. I'm definitely feeling a fuzzy-headed today, perhaps due to that lack of iodine intake.

Overall, I would say that I was functioning at about 50% while Synthroid, at about 75% while on Synthroid plus iodine, and now I'm at about 90% with desiccated thyroid plus iodine.

Oddly, my symptoms are not all better. Instead, my body's response has been somewhat mixed. My brain fog is gone, and my powers of memory and concentration are much better. I have tons more energy, such that I'm able to put in a day's work. Overall, my mental function and energy levels should be about 10% better, I think. I've stopped gaining weight, but I've not yet lost any weight. My digestion is definitely better: I'm not chronically bloated, and I'm able to skip a meal without disaster. My carpal tunnel is somewhat better, but still bothering me somewhat. However, my body temperatures are still quite low, averaging about 96.5 F. My skin is still terribly dry.

I'm also able to exercise -- but wowee, I am so out of shape! I'd been increasing sedentary for the last few months, such that I barely moved in December. Now I can exercise, but my muscles are shaky and then sore from even mild weightlifting. Also, I used to be unable to exert enough energy to get winded, but now my wind is the major limiting factor when I row on our rowing machine. That's good!

Also, my goiter -- the nodule in my thyroid -- seems to have shrunk considerably. Before, I could feel a squishy spot on my neck, and I could see a slight bulge in the mirror. Now that's all gone. I'll have an ultrasound recheck in late March, and I expect good results from that.

I'm going to have another thyroid lab panel done in early March, and I expect that I'll be increasing my desiccated thyroid dose to 1.5 grains then. Also, as I mentioned, I'm taking an iodine loading test on Monday. I'll be very curious to see my results; I expect that I'm still iodine deficient, and that I can and ought to increase my daily dose, perhaps up to 50 milligrams per day for a few months. Paul -- who has been supplementing with just the RDA of 150 micrograms for the past few weeks -- will be taking his test when he can, likely next weekend. I'll be very curious to compare my results with his.

I've come to wonder whether iodine might be like Vitamin D -- in the sense that the miniscule amounts recommended by the government might be sufficient to ward off obvious illness -- rickets, in the case of Vitamin D and goiter, in the case of iodine. Yet a much higher dose might be optimal. I'm definitely not recommending everyone start taking large doses of iodine. However, if you're suffering from the symptoms of hypothyroidism, you might investigate iodine. And for everyone else, I recommend that you make sure that you obtain the recommended 150 micrograms per day.

Mostly though, I'd like to see some solid research and writing on the subject. While I've learned a great deal from the sources I've read, I've been frustrated by the inconsistent quality thereof. I'm not competent to dig up and read the primary sources in the medical literature: I'm purely a consumer of secondary sources. That makes me exceedingly nervous, as I know just how inaccurate secondary sources can be!

I have serious reservations about the scientific judgment of some of the sources I've read on iodine and hypothyroidism -- even though I often found them fascinating and helpful. For example, Dr. David Brownstein wrote a fascinating little book on iodine -- Iodine: Why You Need It, Why You Can't Live Without It. (He's also the author of Overcoming Thyroid Disorders.) His collection of articles on iodine (often co-authored) looked good too... until I got to the belligerent argument for young-earth creationism. Seriously. I don't think that Brownstein is lying about the tests he's done and the results he's gotten, particularly given that others have reported similar results. Yet I simply cannot trust the medical judgment of someone who appeals to the Flood (!!) and Satan (!!) to explain why the soils of some inland areas are deficient in iodine.

Similarly, while I was super-intrigued by what I read in Dr. Mark Starr's book Hypothyroidism Type 2, I was dismayed to read on his web site that he practices homeopathy and "energetic medicine." I just can't regard that as anything better than mystical quackery. The only bright side is that nothing in the book seems to depend on -- or even hint at -- those views, so perhaps that's all separate from his views on hypothyroidism. However, once again, I simply can't trust his medical judgment.

My basic approach is to take whatever seems grounded in good empirical science from these folks, then then integrate it with my own experience and reliable reports from others. Happily, I can strongly recommend one very practical book on hypothyroidism, namely Janie Bowthorpe's Stop the Thyroid Madness. Mary Shomon's book Living Well with Hypothyroidism also has some helpful suggestions, particularly for dealing with doctors unwilling to prescribe desiccated thyroid. And I've often found myself searching the archives of various Yahoo Groups, particularly Coalition for Natural Desiccated Thyroid, Natural Thyroid Hormones, and Iodine.

Also, I have some hope for Dr. Broda Barnes' 1976 book Hypothyroidism: The Unsuspected Illness, but I'll reserve judgment until that arrives from Amazon.

Mostly, I'm just desperate for a good, juicy blog post from Dr. Eades on the subject of hypothyroidism, desiccated thyroid, and iodine supplementation. He's probably the only doctor (along with his excellent wife, MD) whose judgment I can fully trust on this topic. He's got the deep knowledge of the relevant biology; he's got the years of experience treating patients with hypothyroidism; and he's got a good working epistemology.

Happily, Dr. Eades dropped some useful hints in the comments of a blog post on Oprah's weight gain. He recommends an iodine loading test, plus Iodoral (12.5 to 50 milligrams) for people who are deficient. And he always used desiccated thyroid for his patients, not synthetic T4. I was so relieved to read that, as I felt like I was leaping about in the dark, particularly on the iodine.

So ... Dr. Eades ... will you write that blog post on iodine that you promised in those comments? Pretty please... with a deliciously tender sous vide meatball on top?

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 Comments

Saturday, January 30, 2010 at 20:01:06 mst
Comment ID: #1
Name: Jeff montgomery
E-mail: Jamontgom(at)hotmail.com
URL: http://Funwithgravity.blogspot.com

Glad you're feeling better. Not having energy and mental clarity must be _very_ frustrating.

And self-sufficiency is nice, but it also must be frustrating to have to do so much doctorin' yourself. Jeez.

Saturday, January 30, 2010 at 20:01:08 mst
Comment ID: #2
Name: Jeff montgomery
E-mail: Jamontgom(at)hotmail.com
URL: http://Funwithgravity.blogspot.com

Glad you're feeling better. Not having energy and mental clarity must be _very_ frustrating.

And self-sufficiency is nice, but it also must be frustrating to have to do so much doctorin' yourself. Jeez.

Sunday, January 31, 2010 at 0:07:29 mst
Comment ID: #3
Name: CK

Doesn't Bowthorpe say there's a pitfall in staying with 1 grain for more than a week or two, starting out, regardless of initial results?

After getting a TSH of 5.something, I'm trying the 'eat lots of seaweed' route before I start with medicine. Haven't noticed any big change, though I didn't have strong hypothyroid symptoms to begin with.

Sunday, January 31, 2010 at 0:18:13 mst
Comment ID: #4
Name: Diana Hsieh
E-mail: diana(at)dianahsieh.com
URL: http://www.dianahsieh.com/blog

CK -- Yes, Janie Bowthorpe recommends raising faster than I'm doing, but my doctor wouldn't agree to that recommended schedule. That's okay; I'm willing to risk it. I've not been seriously hypothyroid for long, and I don't imagine that I'll need 3-5 grains, as most people do. I'm thinking that 1.5 to 2 will suffice.

Also, I got no results from eating even supposedly high-iodine kelp for months. You might consider Lugol's or Iodoral.

Sunday, January 31, 2010 at 0:44:26 mst
Comment ID: #5
Name: Jean
E-mail: davematheny3000(at)comcast.net

I'm delighted to hear that you're feeling better! A friend of mine has been struggling with the same problem -- she was initially simply given anti-depressanta and other drugs that simply masked the problems, but her husband learned of a clinic in Florida that actually treated these cases surgically. Now, I'm afraid I won't remember all of the details, but I believe it involved the surgical removal of a small tumor or growth on the thyroid -- he has done thousands of these surgeries over the last few years. She's now feeling better, though still having to wean herself off of the various drugs that were given to treat her symptoms.

Sunday, January 31, 2010 at 8:53:27 mst
Comment ID: #6
Name: v
E-mail: weilasmith(at)gmail.com

i went over to the stopthetyroidmadness website and saw that she recommends a ferritin test. my ferritin was like 7 last time i had it tested in 5/09. at that time i also had very heavy periods. after going paleo in 8/09 my periods have gradually lessened, but aren't light. did you have your ferritin tested? you said your periods stopped for 16 months,so maybe ferritin was not an issue for you (i have never been on birth control pills). i am wondering why the stop the madness person doesn't recommend a test for iodine deficiency. any thoughts there? also, did you have your vitamin d levels checked? if so, and you were deficient, do you think low vitamin d has played a role in your symptoms? what is your vitamin d status now? i was deficient in 5/09, and started supplementing irregulary (just forgetting to take my pills) since november, but i just got a cold. i will be having a vitamin d test in a week. thanks for sharing your experiences.

Sunday, January 31, 2010 at 9:00:58 mst
Comment ID: #7
Name: Diana Hsieh
E-mail: diana(at)dianahsieh.com
URL: http://www.dianahsieh.com/blog

Hi V -- I haven't checked my ferritin levels, but I've been supplementing with iron for some months now. (I recently donated blood, and my hematocrit level was fine. I'm not sure if and how that's related to ferritin though.) I've been supplementing with vitamin D for about 18 months now, and my levels have been in the high 80s/low 90s for over a year.

Sunday, January 31, 2010 at 9:17:32 mst
Comment ID: #8
Name: margretdzn
E-mail: margretdzn(at)aol.com

Good story......I can really identify with it, as I went through most of same things over last few years.....I felt like I would have been better off dead than how I was living, unable to function in daily life, with no knowledge of what was going on with me, no hope for the future......Then a chance meeting with a nutritionist who I never met, didn't know me---we weren't even talking about me or my problems, she started talking about someone else and mentioned the words adrenal fatigue, hypothyroid together and that set me off on a "googling journey", which in time led me to find out what was wrong with me, and further, led me to a holistic MD and holistic nutritionist who both treated my symptoms---not by tests......The MD just looked at me and said I was terribly hormonally imbalanced, starting with thyroid, then adrenals, then female hormones....First step was taking me off the synthroid and cytomel which didn't do anything for previous 4 yrs. I had taken them from previous endo. who put me on them for hashi's, and when I still didn't feel better, (he was judging by tests), he told me "well, that's the best we can do for you--live with it"....the new MD put me on Armour--3 grains---said I should feel better in 2-3 days......after 3 days I HAD ENERGY, clarity, etc., etc., plus I started losing 1 lb. a day, till I lost 18 lbs......we played around with dosage, finally ending up now with 4 gr. Armour, .75 Synthroid.....Also added Lugols and bioidentical hormones.....nutritionist gave me supplements to support a new adrenal function......My life is 100% better---there are still a few tweaks now and then, but overall I can proudly say "I am healthy"........

Sunday, January 31, 2010 at 16:44:09 mst
Comment ID: #9
Name: v
E-mail: weilasmith(at)gmail.com

this is from the stopthethyroidmadness website about ferritin:

"Are there other issues I need to correct? Often, there are other areas that need assistance when you are being treated with desiccated thyroid products. For one, many patients need to optimize their Ferritin level (storage iron), which is low in many thyroid patients. Low Ferritin can cause very similar symptoms as being hypothyroid, OR can cause you to have hyper-like symptoms when you try to raise desiccated thyroid. "

this whole issue is very complicated. please keep us informed as to your progress.-v

Sunday, January 31, 2010 at 19:48:37 mst
Comment ID: #10
Name: Judy

So good to hear that you have seen such improvement so quickly. Welcome back to life.

I've done a lot of my own reading and sorting through all the too-often conflicting information out there on hypoT and Iodine (among other things) and have also joined the ranks of those taking mg. levels of Iodine-currently on 25mg of Iodoral and taking my time since also dealing with adrenals, which is another whole interconnected education track.

I am with you in rejecting homeopathy and "energetic medicine", but our reasons are going to be different.

While I readily state that I am also a believer in young-earth creationism, and am just in the middle of watching an interesting series of videos at drdino.com, I am perplexed at your referring to Dr. Brownstein's statement about the Biblical account and its results as a belligerent argument. I went and reread the piece, since it has been several months since I was there, and I really don't find any belligerence or argumentation there. You're certainly quite free to disagree, but I don't understand why you made the accusation against him.

It would also be interesting to know what you consider to be a better explanation for the current state of our soils and oceans.

In peace,
Judy

Sunday, January 31, 2010 at 20:49:10 mst
Comment ID: #11
Name: Diana Hsieh
E-mail: diana(at)dianahsieh.com
URL: http://www.dianahsieh.com/blog

"It would also be interesting to know what you consider to be a better explanation for the current state of our soils and oceans."

Science.

Monday, February 1, 2010 at 7:13:38 mst
Comment ID: #12
Name: C. August
E-mail: titanic.deckchairs(at)gmail.com
URL: http://www.titanicdeckchairs.com

>>Science.

Blog comment WIN!

Monday, February 1, 2010 at 10:42:52 mst
Comment ID: #13
Name: PDS

Diana:

Having pulled a hammy in Karate this morning, I am headed to the doctor this afternoon. You may recall that I am one of the few fans of synthroid who posted in response to your reports, having used it for 10+ years, without the ill effects you describe (although I do probably have IQ of at least 20 less than you...through no fault of the synthroid) I plan to ask him about your post and the commenters' feedback and will post anything interesting he has to say.

Monday, February 1, 2010 at 10:58:16 mst
Comment ID: #14
Name: Diana Hsieh
E-mail: diana(at)dianahsieh.com
URL: http://www.dianahsieh.com/blog

PDS -- I'm definitely open to the possibility that T4-only meds like Synthroid might work for some people -- namely those with deficient T4 production only. If a person's thyroid problems are downstream of that, however, even just partially, then desiccated thyroid seems to be far superior at alleviating the classic symptoms of hypothyroidism. That's my take at present, at least. But perhaps even the people with just deficient T4 production would be better off with desiccated thyroid too. Studies are needed, I think.

I'll be interested to hear what your doctor has to say.

Monday, February 1, 2010 at 13:48:08 mst
Comment ID: #15
Name: Matt Stone
E-mail: sacredself(at)gmail.com
URL: http://180degreehealth.com

Diana-

I've studied this as thoroughly as anyone. I actually believe that low-carb diets in general ameliorate one of the symptoms of a low-metabolism, which is insulin resistance. Seems that the body's natural response to a low metabolism is triggering fat storage. But, ironically, a low-carb diet is counterproductive for actually healing the core of the condition. This is why guys like Richard and Jimmy Moore have low body temperatures and corresponding health problems. You can even see the edema in Nikoley's photos - in the cheeks and eyes.

Starr, Barnes, Stephen Langer, and Janie from Stop the Thyroid Madness all have one thing in common. They believe that a low metabolism/low body temperature is a sign of a thyroid problem. What they fail to understand, is that there is an outside trigger telling the body what to set the metabolism at. That is the fat mass. Leptin is in control of the metabolism. It tells the thyroid what to do.

Of course, there are situations of legit thyroid problems, and iodine deficiency - as well as Vitamin D deficiency. Those need to be addressed, and desiccated thyroid is without question the right medication for a truly bum thyroid.

But using it to override a slow metabolism, while it may clear up many negatives of a slow metabolism, is not getting to the core of the problem, which is resistance to the hormone leptin. This appears to be caused by inflammation. I don't have all the answers yet, but I do konw that the vast majority of people I work with are bringing basal temps up above 98F with diet alone (with a clearing of a vast array of metabolism-related symptoms). My own basal temp is up 1.4 degrees F in the last 90 days.

Please contact me if you have any questions about it, or have any questions about Barnes's work. You can do so by leaving comments on any of my blog posts at www.180degreehealth.blogspot.com

Monday, February 1, 2010 at 13:48:48 mst
Comment ID: #16
Name: Matthias
E-mail: madMUHHH(at)gmx.net

Hi there,
first of all congratulations! Good to see that you probably have found the solution for your problems. It seems like my symptoms are pretty similiar to yours and I also started taking iodine. I did this before I even read this blog post. So far, I've seen a slight increase in body temperature but nothing more. But I've only been taking it for three or four days now.

Oh, and there's one thing I wanna ask you about. You wrote:
"but now my wind is the major limiting factor when I row on our rowing machine"
First of all, I'm gonna assume that you mean "mind" and not wind.
And my question is what exactly do you mean with that? I have noticed than when exercising, my CNS seems to give up the fastest, I get kinda irritable and a little brain-fogged after a while. Are you experiencing the same thing or do you mean something different?

Monday, February 1, 2010 at 14:29:48 mst
Comment ID: #17
Name: Diana Hsieh
E-mail: diana(at)dianahsieh.com
URL: http://www.dianahsieh.com/blog

Matt -- Thanks for the comment. I will look into what you're doing. Just FYI, leptin has been on my radar. I've had my leptin levels checked, and they're normal. Also, Richard's thyroid problems predate his switch to a paleo diet, and I'm pretty certain that mine did too. (Plus, in my case, I've discovered that most of the women in my family are hypothyroid.)

Matthias -- No, I meant "wind," meaning that I get out-of-breath, rather than being unable to muster the energy. Just FYI, slow reflexes are a sign of hypothyroidism.

Monday, February 1, 2010 at 17:37:36 mst
Comment ID: #18
Name: v
E-mail: weilasmith(at)gmail.com

Matt said:

"But using it (low carb diet) to override a slow metabolism, while it may clear up many negatives of a slow metabolism, is not getting to the core of the problem, which is resistance to the hormone leptin. This appears to be caused by inflammation. I don't have all the answers yet, but I do konw that the vast majority of people I work with are bringing basal temps up above 98F with diet alone (with a clearing of a vast array of metabolism-related symptoms). My own basal temp is up 1.4 degrees F in the last 90 days."

1)My low body temperature also predates paleo by 6 years or more.
2)Matt seems to be saying that leptin resistance is cause by inflammation. then you could check for leptin resistance via a test for inflammation like c-reactive protein, no?
3)Matt says the people he works with are bringing their temps up with diet. Am I the only one who finds it strange that he didn't give us some inking of what the change in diet is? instead we have to go to his website and find out? why not just say it here?

-Diana, i would like to suggest you make a timeline of the progression of your symtoms. i'm a little confused as to how far your weight loss progressed/how many months of paleo/amount of exercise you were doing, when you started supplementing with iron, etc, when you started having symptoms.thx

Monday, February 1, 2010 at 17:39:57 mst
Comment ID: #19
Name: v
E-mail: weilasmith(at)gmail.com

oops! i didn't mean to put 'low carb' in parentheses above, i meant to put in (dessicated thyroid)

Tuesday, February 2, 2010 at 10:04:00 mst
Comment ID: #20
Name: C. August
E-mail: titanic.deckchairs(at)gmail.com
URL: http://www.titanicdeckchairs.com

@v (comment #18) I didn't necessarily find it strange that Matt linked to his blog, but I did go there trying to find what specific diet recommendations he had. I wasn't able to find anything specific or comprehensive, and I don't have time to scour his blog for it. Perhaps he'll stop back at this thread and elucidate.

Tuesday, February 2, 2010 at 11:23:00 mst
Comment ID: #21
Name: cbf

Hi Diana,

I really have to support Matt in his position on low-carb diets. I myself was also a victim of believing it was the best way a human could possibly eat for a few years - it ended with me feeling horrible, my temperature was very low throughout the day, I had digestion so bad I didn't dare to leave the house sometimes, unbearable chronic pain and other problems. Thanks to reading some of Matt's posts, abandoning the LC diet and eating lots of everything (as long as it's not processed) I got out of this hell. I still have a spot in my eye that formed during the worst period that I will probably have to live with forever (not sure what it is but it's interfering with my reading sometimes), but all of my other problems are gone. Mind you, I also think I was slightly hypothyroid already before going LC (hence my interest in dieting in the first place), similar to yourself I had an enlarged thyroid and a nodule plus a family history of hypothyroidism, but I really am 100% SURE that the LC diet alone pushed me over the edge.

Good luck!

Tuesday, February 2, 2010 at 12:35:58 mst
Comment ID: #22
Name: Matthias
E-mail: madMUHHH(at)gmx.net

I'm on cbf's side here as well. I really tried to find all kinds of reasons for my demise when it was very obvious from the beginning that low-carb started my problems. After reading Matt's blog it really seemed like the pieces finally fell into place. I'm still avoiding grains (except rice) as I still believe that a primal style of eating is probably the optimal way to go. I think Don from Primal Wisdom is somebody who gets it right mostly, as his carb intake seems to be significantly above the intake of most other primal peeps. Also whenever I stumble about an article/post that tells us what our hunter/gatherer ancestors ate, there were always tubers mentioned, however most people seem to kinda ignore this for reasons which I think are silly (high GI).
So currently I'm eating a little more Kitavan style and seem to do quite well with it.

Tuesday, February 2, 2010 at 16:28:29 mst
Comment ID: #23
Name: Diana Hsieh
E-mail: diana(at)dianahsieh.com
URL: http://www.dianahsieh.com/blog

Undoubtedly, some people might do better on more carbs than others. I've never been terribly low-carb by common paleo standards. Lately, I've been eating more tubers, and I'm happy doing that. So my basic policy is the same as when I started the diet -- no grains or sugars; no modern vegetable oils; lots of meat, eggs, and veggies. I'm just playing around within those constraints, and I think everyone should do that periodically, to see what works best for them.

Tuesday, February 2, 2010 at 17:52:43 mst
Comment ID: #24
Name: v
E-mail: weilasmith(at)gmail.com

diana, right now i'm starting to go strictly dairy free as an experiment. before i was mostly just using butter to fry stuff, and that was the extent of my dairy. have you ever considered experimenting with going off dairy, and if not, why not?

Tuesday, February 2, 2010 at 18:05:37 mst
Comment ID: #25
Name: Diana Hsieh
E-mail: diana(at)dianahsieh.com
URL: http://www.dianahsieh.com/blog

v -- I've not tried omitting dairy, although I might do that at some point. The main reason is that I have a cowshare, so I get 1 gallon of pricey raw milk per week whether I want it or not. In addition, I rely on cream, kefir, and cheese a fair bit, so I'd really have to adjust my diet to omit dairy. Right now, omitting dairy seems like it would be quite a bit of work -- and I'm already spending so much time reading, thinking, and writing about thyroid problems that I'll not get anything done if I omit dairy! Notably, I've not run into any evidence that dairy is related to thyroid problems. If I do run across something like that, I'll definitely consider exerting the effort.

Moooooo!

Wednesday, February 3, 2010 at 17:51:21 mst
Comment ID: #26
Name: Richard Nikoley
E-mail: rnikoley(at)gmail.com
URL: http://freetheanimal.com

Ha. "Edema." Thanks, Dr. Matt.

Actually, the previous photo (the one you commented on Stephan's blog) was of me at my parent's 50th anniversary party and I had a half bottle of scotch in me.

I have no "edema." Not even close.

But thanks, Dr. Matt. When might we schedule my _next_ physical examination?

BTW, this'll be a decent addition to an upcoming post on "preceptions" (that's no accident) that I have planned.

Thursday, February 4, 2010 at 17:02:44 mst
Comment ID: #27
Name: Diana Hsieh
E-mail: diana(at)dianahsieh.com
URL: http://www.dianahsieh.com/blog

Richard just posted a lengthier response to Matt Stone, here:

http://freetheanimal.com/2010/02/richard-nikoley-has-a-low-body-tem ...

Thursday, February 4, 2010 at 20:20:30 mst
Comment ID: #28
Name: v
E-mail: weilasmith(at)gmail.com

diana, more info on ferritin. also, do you space the taking of your thyroid medicine and your iron? based on the info in this link, taking them too close together could interfere with your thyroid medication.

http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/ferritin1.pdf

Thursday, February 4, 2010 at 22:25:45 mst
Comment ID: #29
Name: Diana Hsieh
E-mail: diana(at)dianahsieh.com
URL: http://www.dianahsieh.com/blog

v -- Yes, I take my iron (and other supplements, except iodine) in the evening, a few hours after I take my second dose of desiccated thyroid. My understanding is that the interference is less (if not non-existent) if you take your thyroid meds sublingually, as I do. I try not to eat for an hour or so before or after I take my thyroid meds, just to be on the safe side.

I do want to look at when and/or how I should take my iodine. Right now, I spread it out in four equal doses of liquid iodine throughout the day, but I wonder if I might be better off doing something else.

Saturday, February 20, 2010 at 3:52:10 mst
Comment ID: #30
Name: dropship
E-mail: dropship(at)5ztv.com
URL: http://www.b2cdropship.com

They believe that a low metabolism/low body temperature is a sign of a thyroid problem. What they fail to understand, is that there is an outside trigger telling the body what to set the metabolism at.

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